4C Loam Control or 4C I have no Idea what I am Doing Loam

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4C Loam Control or 4C I have no Idea what I am Doing Loam

Postby tgraham9 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:34 am

So I finally got in to Legacy and who would have thought that this is a hard format. And how else do you start playing a hard format that I know only a little about than play one of the most convoluted decks I have ever seen while having no idea what I am doing. Please for those who know these types of strategies or are good at mana base math help me, give me some ideas and some suggestions. I want to know if this decks percentages are off? Does the deck need more color producers? Is Devastating Dreams that good?
[deck]Creatures (7)

4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor

Planeswalkers (3)

3 Liliana of the Veil

Lands (26)

1 Swamp
1 Badlands
3 Barren Moor
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Maze of Ith
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
1 Tranquil Thicket
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Nantuko Monastery

Spells (25)

3 Mox Diamond
1 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Darkblast
4 Punishing Fire
2 Devastating Dreams
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Life from the Loam
3 Thoughtseize[/deck]
After playing with the deck I thought it needed a another threat so i decided to included Nantuko Monastery but that could easily be a Treetop village or a raging ravine or even a Lavaclaw reaches but I don't know if I need one of these more than the others. Also from playing the deck for a little bit I have come up with some ideas that could work but I want to run it across anyone who wants to read and suggest. Please do not include Dark depths because I do not want to play depths and they are very expensive so I would rather play something else.

Some ideas: Living Wish, Entomb, Gamble, Treetop Village, Raging Ravine, Lavaclaw Reaches, 1 More Mox Diamond, Another Green Sun's Zenith, Raven's Crime

Any other ideas? Please suggest or if any of these peak your interest please build on it with what you would do and what I could included or need to take out. I am going to continue testing with the version I have right now but I want to see what people come up with so I have a idea of what could be good.

Thank you for those who help
Last edited by tgraham9 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 4C Loam Control or 4C I have no Idea what I am Doing Lo

Postby Doktor_Sleepless » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:56 am

I strongly recommend trying the following:
-3 inquisition of kozilek
-1 Punishing Fire

+3 Entomb
+1 Raven's Crime

I'd also probably try to fit a Worm harvest in somehow. Oh, and you don't need GSZ. You just don't. It's not live enough here. Nor is Teeg, I'd say. Are you really going to play Devastating Dreams with Teeg? He'll never survive. Put them (GSZ and Teeg) in a sideboard package for matchups where they shine. That opens up 2 more slots, which can be 1 Worm Harvest and 1 Let's be a 60 card deck, not a 61 card deck.

Entomb is basically a 1-mana demonic tutor in this deck. It gets loam, it gets bullet lands, it gets darkblast, it gets raven's crime, etc. Raven's Crime is bonkers. It just is. It WRECKS hands.

As for the mana base, you need one thing for sure. 1 barren moor should be Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Better mana fixing for Worm harvest and discard spells and Liliana.
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Re: 4C Loam Control or 4C I have no Idea what I am Doing Lo

Postby eldashgato » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:15 am

I've been playing G/B Loam decks, off and on, for the past two or three years. It's one of my favorite archetypes. The good Doktor is correct: Entombing a Raven's Crime is generally much stronger than Inquisition, because the Loam + Raven's Crime engine crushes blue decks once it gets online. Also, Entomb is a better late game draw than Inquisition is.

I also agree that GSZ is out of place in this deck. The Junk Depths lists that run GSZ usually have a lot more targets for it. I'd be curious to know how good Devastating Dreams has been. I was never really a fan of that card.

This SCG deck tech is pre-Deathrite, but I feel like it got a lot of things right:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/lega ... Mayer.html

I never liked the Nantuko Monastery plan. Marit Lage or GTFO, I say. Also, you should find a home for at least one Crop Rotation, just to see what it does.
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Re: 4C Loam Control or 4C I have no Idea what I am Doing Lo

Postby tgraham9 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:28 am

I had a Crop Rotation in the board for certain match ups and anything besides Marit lage because I don't feel like trying to find Dark depths when they are 60 and what do you mean GTFO? Also Is 26 Lands right or should there be more? How much do y'all like the main board darkblast I don't know how I feel about it?
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Re: 4C Loam Control or 4C I have no Idea what I am Doing Lo

Postby eldashgato » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:39 am

I'm a huge fan of Darkblast, but it might be overkill if you have the Punishing Fire + Grove package already. There are a lot of tricks you can do with Darkblast that involve Entombing it, then dredging it off a Sylvan Library or Barren Moor to kill something.

26 lands sounds fine in a creature light deck. The alternative is to go to 24ish and play more creatures, or maybe something like a Living Wish package. As with all things, though, you have to play around with the deck to see what feels right. The great thing about Legacy is, you can just ignore the metagame and play any pet deck you want, over and over, for years and years. There's a strong streak of casual Magic that runs through Legacy, even in high stakes events. Pet decks, casual decks, and casualish decks tend to do very poorly in Modern and Standard. Legacy is a little bit different, because the metagame is so much bigger.

GTFO means "get the fuck out." Basically, "Marit Lage or GTFO" means I don't see any reason to play something that's inferior to a Dark Depths kill (i.e., Nantuko Monastery). On the other hand, yikes - I didn't realize they were over $50.00 at the moment. This is going to make it harder for me to get the last two foils I need. Sigh.
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Re: 4C Loam Control or 4C I have no Idea what I am Doing Lo

Postby Doktor_Sleepless » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:37 am

Yeah eldashgato, they're crazy because all those depths lists put up numbers at SCG events. Thanks Thespian's Stage + New Legend Rule.

As far as Darkblast+Punishing fire, that's why one of my cuts was one punishing fire. You just don't need 4 copies if you have darkblast for tiny dorks. 5 recurring removal spells is way too many, and with entomb you can entomb a Punishing Fire if you have Grove in play (see, all the darkblasters forget you can also entomb other cards for tricksy removal).

Don't mess with 26 lands. Maze of Ith makes no mana until you add an urborg, and 25 mana producing lands is the minimum for a deck like this.

Monastery is whatever. It's fine. It's a good size man-land. At the point you can't volrath's stronghold back a KotR they've killed, I guess Monastery is the way to go. I worry a bit about corner cases where they've somehow neutralized KotR but have an active goyf in play. Monastery probably won't stop that. However, KotR is your main weapon and you have the ability to recur him (which you can tutor for via entomb/loam). So I wouldn't worry too much about the quality of man-land. Raging Ravine, Nantuko Monastery, Mishra's Factory, whatever. At the point of the game you're beating them to death with a land, you've probably taken it to topdeck mode and cleared off their board anyway.
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Re: 4C Loam Control or 4C I have no Idea what I am Doing Lo

Postby Doktor_Sleepless » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:41 am

Having said all that, if you can afford to acquire or trade for Thespian+Depths, it would be really strong here and would be good incentive to run 1 hexmage main (also a great catch all against planeswalkers!) plus a small Living Wish package. I strongly endorse wish packages in non-linear decks.

At that point Urborg is a must add, as it gives a route to turn 2 victory in the face of idiots and storm players (turn 1 depths, turn 2 urborg, tap for BB, Hexmage, Marit lage at your end step, DOOM) while fixing your mana for all the heavy black spells you want to cast.
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Re: 4C Loam Control or 4C I have no Idea what I am Doing Lo

Postby tgraham9 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:31 pm

I think I will stick to anything but Dark depths for now but question can you run less than 4 wishes or is that out of the question. How many slots should be wish targets in the board? I would guess around 8 but thats just a educated guess. And if we cut GSZ should we cut the arbor? Also not a fan of Worm Harvest. What could be possible wish targets I could use?
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